In this interview we talk about Emmanuel Guengant's journey:
– how he went from a career in the medical field to a concierge service with 45 apartments
– the keys that make, for him, the success of a concierge service and the satisfaction of the owners
– how I display Complet helps him on a daily basis
– and how he manages the people on his team so that everything goes as well as possible
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Hello and welcome to the J'poster Complet channel, the channel which helps seasonal rental companies, seasonal rental concierge services and professional sub-renters to increase their turnover.
Today, I am delighted to do an interview with Emmanuel Guengant who is the director of the Wowloc company.
– I am delighted to welcome you to my microphone today Manu.
– Thank you Elise. Hello everyone !
– What I am proposing to you today, what I am proposing to you, Emmanuel, is that we can discover your journey, your journey which is very atypical and very interesting: your journey in real estate, your journey with your concierge service too also. I have lots of questions to ask, and I'm sure that all of this will inspire a lot of people. Perhaps, if you want, to start, you can tell us about your journey?
- Yes of course ! So I've been doing seasonal rentals since 2010. Before that, I invested in real estate since 2003, so a little naturally, well mostly by chance, in fact; At one point, we bought a small house by the sea, we started renting it like that in 2010. It was before the arrival of AIRBNB, and it worked quite well, even before AIRBNB. And then little by little, we bought a studio in town, and then we developed, we grew. At the concierge level, it's a bit the same. It's a bit of a coincidence too. What happened was I had friends who started giving me managed properties, and I couldn't say no. And one thing led to another, I took 1 – 2 – 3, and today, I have 45 under management in the concierge service called Wowloc: it’s W – O – W – L – O – C. It’s a special concierge service for investors. It's not for just anyone, it's not aimed at just anyone, we'll come back to that, but in fact, I created the concierge service that I would have liked to have as a seasonal rental company, everything simply.
– What is interesting, what I also like, in your career, is that you come from a field of activity which is not at all the basic one… which has nothing to have.
– I come from the medical, social, so nothing to do with business, with money, with everything that goes with seasonal rental. Really nothing to see. This shows that we can also reorient ourselves professionally: there is no age limit for that. That's when I already left the dinosaurs of seasonal rental, and I've been renting for a lot of years, and I've already seen all the developments. It's true that we, at the start, we rent and we don't even talk about the RM and the ads. What we did was we published ads in small free newspapers. It’s crazy stuff, and it worked well. Le Paru Vendu is stuff from another age, but we found customers like that.
– Were you doing seasonal rentals at that time?
– Yes, yes, yes.
– In the Hic? Does the Hic exist here, or not?
– No, each region had its name of small newspapers, small free newspapers, but we rented like that. Now, it has evolved enormously. The practice of seasonal rental has become very professional. Today, we don't attack a "wow" market like that, we have to be at the top in everything, in all areas which are at the level of the implementation, at the level of the decoration, super important, at the level of the photos , at the revenue management level. You really have to have a very professional approach, because there are a lot of people on the market. To break into the market, you don't have to do anything. On the other hand, if you do what you need to do well, you will break through quickly, and then you will have results, that's for sure. But it’s true that 10-15 years ago, we rented like that. There were one or two large platforms, there was no AIRBNB and Booking. We didn't even know them, they were for hotels at the time. So it's a global transformation of seasonal rental, and even rental companies, because rental companies, there were no professionals either, people who only did that: it didn't exist. We had one or two properties, and here we are, trying to make the thing work.
– There was Gîtes de France, at the limit.
– Yes, obviously, there was Gîtes de France and Clé Vacances, but since then, they have been overtaken by the big platforms. Then AIRBNB came to revolutionize, in fact, the entire marketing approach. It is certain that we are no longer owners, we are hosts, customers, travelers. It’s still a revolution with the arrival of AIRBNB. I remember, there were owners at the time, they didn't want to hear about AIRBNB: “It's rubbish, we don't want to do it. » We jumped on the bandwagon. Not on the move, but at the very beginning. We have no regrets, because in fact, now, the two big platforms are AIRBNB and Booking. We absolutely have to be on these platforms, because everything else is not what we are going to fill with.
– On your journey or basically, you are starting from a field that is completely different, what, in your opinion, were the key success factors in making this transition? Looking back between the Manu of today and yesterday, I don't realize in terms of years, at the time when you would say that you were really new to these subjects, what made the difference?
– The difference, in fact, I have renovated a lot by myself, already. So I knew what real estate was. The annuity stuff and all that, I don't really know, but as I renovated a lot, I knew what to do and what not to do in terms of materials, craftsmen, follow-up , construction site, all that. So it's true that it helps a little, because you can't do it to me backwards, it's not possible. That's a first point. Afterwards, it's the Mindset, I think. It is the desire to undertake, to create value, to bring value to our customers. That's it, actually. It's true that it's a completely different approach from salaried employment, because in salaried employment, you have peace of mind at the end of the month, you have your salary which falls. But in terms of wealth and experience, it's not the same thing at all. I also had a job, it was huge. I had a job where I was by the sea, I saw the sea every morning on my way to work. Even at the end, in my office, they had destroyed a building, so I had a sea view, it was incredible. I had a golden prison, in fact. It was a golden prison, you can't get away with something like that, it's not possible. And I have a lot of recognition from the patients, a lot of recognition, not necessarily from the institution, because the big companies didn't have a lot of recognition, but a lot of recognition from the patients. I brought a lot. But there you go, I was missing something, I was missing this little entrepreneurial side: we move forward, we make projects, and that, as I didn't have it in my job, I went to look elsewhere, in fact, everything simply, with notions, also, of selling its services and benefits. Selling something is very difficult when you have been an employee all your life. It's inconceivable to think that you can exchange your knowledge with money. Already, by being an employee, you exchange your time for money, but here, selling a service is difficult. So at the beginning, I sold the concierge service very badly. I made all the mistakes I shouldn't have made. I have sold to customers at indecent rates. It really wasn't expensive. So I had my first clients like that, they became friends. I still have clients who are still at that rate, because it was a historic rate. I regret it, eh. They are very happy, that’s how it is, we don’t negotiate agreements during the market, that’s how it is. That's how we learn too. You can't do things right the first time. We make mistakes, and then we improve, it doesn't matter. They trusted me from the very beginning. Already, they were a little crazy, because we were going into an area where I was discovering everything, too. Concierge is still quite a job, with a very high level of demand from our clients, from the owners, too, who call you: “It’s not rented, there, what do you do ? » Yes, well we can't be 99% full every month either, there are times when there are still one or two nights that we don't rent. There is that, and then customers are very demanding. It's normal, they're the ones who pay. You really have to put in a military organization so that everything goes well, so that their stay is truly a successful experience. So at the very beginning, I had put this in place, especially for the apartments. And little by little, there you have it, first boyfriend, in fact, he gave me four apartments. He's leaving in the middle of August. He goes away and leaves you with the four apartments, so I won't explain to you the month of August that I spent.
– It was relaxing, I think.
– There was no big mistake, there were no big mistakes. And then little by little, with the network, I was a little present on the web, the seminars. People started giving me apartment keys in my city and then elsewhere, so today I am in 14 cities in France. It's going very well, we're improving. For the record, our story with Élise, one day I have a little blog, and one day I publish. It was in January, I published my figures for the year. So I was quite proud of myself, I had over 85% occupancy rate, so that was great. And so, there is a girl who writes to me: “For the remaining 15%, you can contact me. » I say to myself: “Who is that one? There are some weird things on the internet. » She had a site name. I'm going to see I'm showing Complete: “Wow”. I look at the quality of the articles, and I say to myself “wow”…I had him on my team. I got in touch with Élise, so at the time, you were just starting out, you didn't even have any training.
- Yes.
– I say to myself: “That thing is powerful. » So she did the RM of my apartments. I saw that there were results in terms of turnover. We were over 20%, if I remember correctly. I think that was it. And yet, I really thought I had mastered it, but actually, no. I was an amateur, but a pure amateur. And I said to myself: “If it’s good for my apartments, I have to generalize for the concierge apartments. » And that’s it, we started like that. At the time, you didn't have any offers, either.
– Exactly, that’s it.
– I had a need for concierge services: I need that for my owners, we have to be at the top, and that’s what I’m going to sell. We sell renta in the concierge service. It's a special concierge service for investors, we sell renta. I discovered RM: “First thing, Revenue Management. » There is an “E.” at the end. » I didn't even know it existed.
– It was a mistake. It's in English.
– Plus, she got stuck into her message. “It’s a spelling mistake.” That’s to say the level! Actually, no. In fact, it really is a science, all of that. She trained me a little, Élise, but it's not my thing, actually, the RM. Numbers and all that are not where I am strongest. So I'm going to ask him to deal with my property, and then the concierge's property. It's very good. In fact, you can't do everything yourself, it's not possible. You can't be good at everything. You can peck, you can try things, but there are things where you will necessarily be stronger than others, and things where you are less strong. You have to delegate. There's no point in trying, in wanting to improve on things where it's not your thing. It is better to delegate, you get a better performance. Obviously, there is a cost. In fact, it's not a cost, it's an investment. In any case, I really feel that way. It’s an investment to have peace of mind. When I say to the owners: “In your town, anyway, don't worry, the others won't do any better. » I really say this with all honor. And I know we will be better than the others. I'm not selling dreams, far from it. I don't know what I wanted to say anymore. Sometimes I get lost, that happens to me too.
– It’s super interesting. Explain a little why you find it interesting to have Revenue Management dedicated to someone as a concierge manager.
– And to subcontract. To subcontract 100%. Élise, she has the keys to the Channel manager's system, and then she is the one who will make the modifications, who will do the study, not a market study, but the price study. Every week, there is a report that is made to find out where we are, whether we have sold well, whether we have not sold well, whether we are increasing prices, whether we are drop. I prefer it when it increases prices, eh. Obviously, when she lowers them, I say: “But not too much though!” » I put a little pressure.
– It’s to sell!
– Yes, it’s to sell, you have to fill it. In fact, what is terrible about our business is that every minute that passes, what is not sold will not come back. Within the year he will not return. So you have to do everything you can to sell it at the best price. It's a job. You have to be good at what you do. For me, it's really things that aren't my thing. I thought, at the start, in fact, following training, coaching…we can't be everywhere, it's not possible. We're going to develop a business, and then do RM at the same time: it's not possible. Otherwise, there are bound to be things you're going to do wrong. So the idea is really to surround yourself with the best, and to surround yourself with people who are more competent than you. That’s really the key to success. There are people who love to have their little lesson, and then: “I'm the one who knows everything. »And then, in fact, you don't progress. We don't progress like that. On the other hand, for the ego, it's good. But we don't progress, we don't go up another level. Whereas with someone who is ultra-competent in their field, whose job it is, it's really nice. Hand over the keys, you go there with your eyes closed. Me, I don't ask myself the question if the RM is well done or not, if we are at the best price in this or that city. Obviously, we will get the best price. We are at the best price. So there, that’s one less worry. There are plenty of other problems with seasonal rentals. The system jumps, whether on AIRBNB or Booking. Bet24, as soon as there is an update, something jumps. There are problems every day. There at least, in terms of peace of mind, at least we know that the RM is well made. And what we sold to the owners, the promise is there.
– There are people who say to themselves: “I’m going to make my price list, and then it will work out. » And it's true that every week, as you said earlier, every week, we send you a detailed report of the assets. It can be surprising, for someone on the outside, to say: “How come there is work to be done every week? » Is this really justified? How would you respond to that?
– That’s a great question. In fact, I too at first thought that was it. We draw up a price list for the year, and then it's good: we pay for a one-shot service. And no, actually. Prices evolve according to supply and demand in the city. Prices are changing all the time. In fact, it's not static at all. The RM is completely dynamic. And with COVID, the year 2020 was extremely dynamic. It's a bit like cryptos, it's the thing that is not regulated and that no one controls. There's one week where we can fill up well, and the next week, we say to ourselves: "Why isn't it filling up as well as the week before?" » Because there have been political decisions, you have to follow the news, there has been the Tour de France, etc. There's always something. That, we can plan in advance, the Tour de France. But there are lots of events happening, especially at the moment. And then there is the psychology of people. Sometimes they all want to go on vacation on the same weekend. So you have 10-15 reservations that fall on Sunday. It's difficult to anticipate, but that's how it is, so you have to constantly adapt. For us, there is nothing acquired, nothing, nothing acquired. It's a job where we are constantly questioning our strategies: what are we doing? What don't we do? It's super dynamic, and if you decide to set your prices in January, you're going to miss out on a lot of money, in fact, period. You're going to miss out on a lot of things. We tried every month. To do RM monthly: it was a disaster. Weekly is better. The best would be every day, but we are not a 400-room hotel, so it would not be profitable, at least in terms of time. But on a weekly basis, with weekly reports, a weekly vision, it's somewhat ideal, I think. And for you, in terms of workload?
– It’s true that it’s already a lot of work for me and my team. But it's true that unlike hoteliers, it's true that a hotelier, a revenue management analyst in a hotel, will look at it every morning. We still have a business that is a little different. The hotelier, he often only “united”. We, by the week, already manage to be very precise and find the right compromise.
– It’s a good compromise, yes. Weekly, to get results and performances, especially at the moment. And the person who isn't doing that today, I don't know what they're doing, actually. It's a bit sad, but at the price level, at least for me, it's not consistent. In any case, she is not there to be on the side of the owners. Today, we work for owners, to ensure them the maximum rental income, and if you don't do that, you don't do much. You will guarantee them income, but you will miss out on a lot of money which will remain on the table. That’s what’s a little sad for the concierge services who don’t do that. They certainly do not necessarily also work according to the interest of the owner. I saw a situation yesterday, I couldn't even talk about it, but it's shameful.
- Oh yes ?
– There are still things… guys, they don’t even pay for the nights, it’s incredible. Well, that's how it is.
– There are always dishonest people. In fact, this is dishonesty.
– There is some cleaning to do, too, in this environment, like everywhere. It's true that we have implemented something ultra-transparent. I'm not making the connection to sell myself, but...
– But yes, you’re right!
– We created an ultra-transparent system where we could not say [inaudible: 19:19 min] to the owner or the person who will do the cleaning. That is to say that everyone sees all the communication, so everyone knows, at a given moment, who is in the apartment, or who is not in the apartment. So there is transparency in terms of communication with travelers, with owners. Everyone has the same tools, and everyone has the same outlook. The owners, they pay us, obviously. So it's not up to him to respond, but it's up to us to respond. But he sees what's happening in his apartment, so I know that there are owners, they're not interested, but I, the majority, can tell you that they watch what's happening in their apartments: if there are good comments, if everything goes well, if they don't have something wrong, and that's it. So they are informed in real time, like us, of everything that is going well and everything that is not going well. So that's not bad. Financial flows are the same. The financial flows go directly into their pocket. There is no middleman. That too is still relatively interesting, because today, from the moment there are intermediaries, there are commissions on cleaning costs, on all that. Only AIRBNB takes this from the rent and cleaning costs, and gives you 20% more VAT. But we don't work like that. Now, AIRBNB is still a big booking provider. Be careful, I don't spit in the soup, far from it. AIRBNB sends us a lot of people. If we didn't have AIRBNB, it would be really complicated. Afterwards, it is a platform that can be improved. Obviously, there are a lot of things to improve, but hey, they do the job. They're sending us people, and we're not going to complain anyway.
– So, the strong points of your company: we mentioned the profitability orientation, and it is also because you are particularly aimed at real estate investors. That's the first point. The second point, it's true that I noticed a lot from the outside, when I see your way of working to communicate about society, and even from the inside. Everything that is transparency is a huge strong point, it's true, of your company. Are there any other highlights to know about Wowloc Concierge?
– As you say, the renta with the RM: the RM, the marketing, since there is all that. We take photos, we also bring in a professional photographer to get beautiful photos. It’s the basis, eh! Now, today is the base. If we don't do that, it's complicated. Transparency of financial flows, of communication, of the entire organization; everything we have put in place, also, in terms of invoicing; visibility, for the owner, of what is happening in his apartments, in terms of tourist tax, in terms of the amounts he receives in his account. It seems stupid, but yesterday, I was in discussion, and he said: “The amounts do not correspond between what the traveler paid, and what I receive, even deducting the commissions. » There must still be absolute transparency on this. Otherwise, it's not going to last very long, actually, the story. There you go, what can we put as an asset...I'm thinking.
– There is the fact that you are an investor, too, yourself.
– Yes, that’s it. That helps quite a bit. Let's say we're talking about the same thing. That is to say, I know the expectations. We know the expectations of owners and investors, we are on the same wavelength. When we have a speech, the objective is the same, so it's true that the flow generally goes well, obviously. And the fact that it is not, also, a large international company, with 50,000 people who do not answer the phone, etc. I am always very available, obviously, for questions from owners, customers, we agree, but for owners, if there are things to improve. We have evolved our billing sheets to have more visibility on them, inside, to have clearer information for owners. It's also based on their requests, because there are some who will ask us for things, there are others who don't need them. But they are also the ones who help us evolve, who give us their needs, and we develop the tools within the company. Afterwards, the big things that are there are absolute transparency. We also make announcements. We do them in the name of investors, in the name of owners. That is to say, if they are not happy with our services, there is no problem, they leave with their ads, with their comments, with the precedence of the platforms behind them. I do not create ads on my account or the concierge account. The ads belong to the owner, that's the basis. If there is one thing to remember, in: “how to choose a concierge”, the day things don’t go well, you leave with your ads. There aren't many who do it, because it's a bit of hell, because you have to create new accounts for each owner, obviously. But it's super important, because I don't already have a captive clientele. If they are not happy with my services, they can leave, and what's more, they leave with their ads. So they leave with what I was able to do, the results we were able to obtain. For them, it frees them from a weight, because they say to themselves: “Hey, I can go too, and I won’t leave in my underwear. » And then for my part, too, it puts pressure, because I know that they can leave. So we have to be good, there is no choice. We can't try to cheat or do things that aren't really honest. We have to be transparent. And that’s really appreciated. People, they all understand that it’s an incredible asset. So for me, afterwards, if things go badly, things go badly: goodbye. And then they resume their announcement. Generally, things go pretty well. There are few who want to leave.
– For an investor who is thinking about it at the moment, who perhaps has long-term colonization assets, and who says to himself: “Hey, I have a new opportunity, I have a new apartment , I hesitate to put it into short-term rental. » The current legend is to say: “It’s obvious that this is not the time to do short-term rentals. » What do you think?
– I, investors who want to spend their assets in the short term, ask them several questions. I don't take the market like that. I could take it, and then think about it afterwards. We don't do seasonal rentals everywhere. That's the problem. I saw the case of a large owner, he has several lots, and he was in my town, so I know him very well, no luck. And there, he said to me: “In this square, I have apartments. » And I know the place by heart. There are all the bars, all the restaurants. In short, we cannot sleep: it is not possible. In the summer, you can't open the windows, and then in the winter there are too many people on this square. Even with double glazing, even with soundproofing, this is not possible. And therefore, customers would have bad experiences. In short, it would be hell. Our customers, I remind you, incidentally, they come to sleep. That's the first point. So the apartment, if it's in a bad location, even if it's a building, even if I'm being promised hundreds of thousands of euros, I'm going to tell the owner: "No, but don't make short term in this place, it's not possible, it's not going to work. We're going to take the property, we're going to rent a little, we're going to get bad comments, it's not worth it. So avoid. » He wasn't happy when I told him that, obviously, because what's more, he had several. So the guy, he's a big owner, big investor, in the: “It's incidental to me. » He wasn't very happy that I told him that, but for me, on the one hand, it's trouble tomorrow if I take it, because I would have problems, because people are not happy, etc. And he'll say to me: "Wait, you're the king of rentals, and then people aren't happy, what's going on? » So I prefer to tell him straight away, because at the implementation level, it's clear that it's the first thing to study. We do not do seasonal rentals anywhere, whether in terms of location in the city, or at the level of the copro, if you have an apartment, you must read carefully, in your copro, the regulations of co-ownership, because seasonal rental may be prohibited. In any case, it may not be authorized, and great care must be taken. In the building, are there many tenants, or many owners? You're doing business, if there are a lot of owners, it's going to be a little complicated. If there are a lot of tenants, it's not the same, but you can have problems. So we have to do things well. The copro regulations must be read. You have to go to town planning, obviously, to see if, in your city, there are any issues with surface compensation, etc. In big cities, that's it. So we don't do seasonal rentals just anywhere. Yes, it is profitable. Yes, but there are rules to respect, and you absolutely have to be on track, because it goes very quickly. All it takes is for the copro to put the pressure on, no matter what. If you're not on track, things will go very quickly. So not only will I have worked for nothing, I'm not very happy. Two, you will waste time, perhaps money, if you make wild divisions, bringing things up to date, it's not worth it. It's better to do things well, and then it's so much simpler when you do things well. So that's the first thing, and then, at the level of the owners, it's the same. It's better when they bring several lots, I have a lot of owners who work from the building, it's simpler, too, to optimize, in terms of management. It's much simpler, and then we have somewhat exponential results, too. Afterwards, do you have any other questions?
– Prejudices can also be…you see, for example, as you know, my sister is currently looking to invest. And when I showed her the occupancy rates in the cities, over the year, she was surprised that it wasn't zero, in fact. And I realized, it's true, well zero, I might be exaggerating a little.
– 8%
– But let it not be a sort of flat encephalogram. And I think there are a lot of people who might think that. And in fact, this is not the reality that we live in vacation rentals today, despite the pandemic.
– No, but it’s very good that they think about that. It leaves room for others.
– Unless they come to see you.
- So. With the pandemic, in fact, we were affected differently depending on the city type. The most touristy cities, very touristy, obviously, as there are no more tourists, there is nothing. This means that it is very difficult to rent for short-term seasonal rentals. Cities like Paris have had many, many difficulties. To name only the cities that I manage. So in these towns, there are no more tourists, there are no more people, there were no more tenants. On the other hand, in cities where there is professional activity all year round, we saw COVID pass, yes obviously, but it really wasn't a disaster, frankly. In 2020, we rented very well in these cities. We lost 10-15% of turnover. We were still closed for several months, there were two lockdowns, travel limitations...but frankly, it's not a disaster. So it depends on the type of city in which you are investing. Today, it is better to have a city that operates at an industrial level, where there are real business trips. We, our customers, are pretty much there. And then, in the week, there are more days in the week than the weekend, eh. Very touristy cities are very good, but I prefer to fill five days of the week with a professional clientele, who don't ask questions, rather than filling two nights with a tourist clientele. Afterwards, if you have both, it's even better: a large industrial city where there is really tertiary industry, somewhat high-end industry, with business leaders, consultants who travel , a lot of subcontracting. I'm not going to name the cities, I know them by heart, but there we're going to be on YouTube or I don't know where. We know them, the cities that are thriving, the cities where professional activity is cool. Where COVID is not a disaster.
– The question we could ask about your company is that you are based in a city, in your city, and you work in many different cities. What makes you manage to guarantee, without revealing secrets that you would not like to reveal, but what makes you manage to guarantee the same quality of service in a city in which, perhaps be, initially, you had never been in your life?
– Actually, I'm lucky. Well, the chances aren't really there. I manage to find motivated, motivating people, and frankly, I have a crazy team at the local level. So these are people who want to create their own concierge service, or who have created it, who are just starting out and who want to get started. So, it's more business leaders. For now, knock on wood, but things are going really well with these people. They are business leaders. I don't work with housekeepers. Everyone works with cleaners, because it's cheaper, and there are business models that have been created around this. Personally, I prefer to work with business leaders who are going to grow. We will grow together, we will have more and more goods. It's not at all the same state of mind, and in terms of responsibility, it's the same, it's not at all the same thing. In terms of remuneration, it's not at all the same thing. In terms of results, it's not the same thing at all.
– You mean: “more expensive”, in terms of remuneration, just to be sure I understand what you are saying?
– Certainly, yes. But you have to know what you want. Today, if you pay people a slingshot, you will get a slingshot performance. Except that the customers, behind, don't want slingshot services. So you have to know what you want. There comes a time when you also have to pay people well. I don't even discuss cleaning costs. We make an estimate, I say: “OK, present this to the owner, if it works or it doesn’t work. » I now know, in France, how many there are. Obviously, if you present me with 120 euros to make a studio, like recently.
– Oh, did that happen?
– Yes, it happened.
– OK!
– I say: “Wait, guys, 120 euros to make a studio? This is a little too much. » We had an explanation with the manager. In fact, the studio is not his target at all. That explains it, eh! On big houses, why not? I knew one person, they do checking: 100 households at 150 euros on the big house. But it's a house at 2000-3000 euros; just handing over the keys is 150 euros. Well, why not? Afterwards, there are business models which... it's a big concierge service, eh, which has more lots than me, but it's going very well! We work, we do LCD, so we mostly have apartments in the city, small or large. We are also developing with houses in Corsica, in large cities. It's not bad, the house, too. It caters to another clientele. You need to carefully analyze the type of clientele you are targeting. It has nothing to do with it, a working clientele, a business clientele, and then a foreign tourist clientele. Frankly, it has nothing to do with it. And appreciation has nothing to do with it. So, that's it. We really adapt to the cities and then depending on the clientele. To come back, yes I am lucky to have a team which is really at the top and which also seeks this autonomy. That is to say, I am not behind them. I haven't put a system in place to control and take photos, because that doesn't interest me. They are responsible. Anyway, the customer, I can tell you something, if things go badly, he calls us straight away. The customer doesn't give any gifts, and everyone knows that. So we can't hide behind: “It's not me. » In terms of responsibility, I prefer to have responsible people, rather than an army of people who just clean up and then it's a mess afterwards. It's a choice too. It's not that there's a problem with all the people who do the cleaning, it's not that at all, but I prefer to have business leaders, rather than one person who only does the cleaning.
– So, we're a bit part of that team too, at J'poster Complet, since we're both in contact. Could you tell me what your life would be like, without having subscribed to the I display Complete service, today, as the business manager of your concierge service?
– Oh! In fact, I also sell the service to my owners. So, if I didn't have I'm showing Complete, I wouldn't have sold them the same thing, obviously. It would not be a special concierge service for investors, because there still needs to be an RM part, obviously. So I wouldn't have sold the same thing. I would have been a little more like the others. We do RM: “I have two people who do RM for 2,000 apartments. ", great ! Do you see what I mean? No, but it's not possible. It wouldn't have been the same. The service would not have been the same. Afterwards, it corresponds to what the majority of owners expect. He doesn't worry about anything, it goes around, it gets by and then that's enough for them. There are people for whom that is enough. Great, so much the better. For me, my clients, that’s not enough for them. My owners, what they want is the maximum. They want maximum profitability, so we put in maximum effort. For me, Élise, this is my first expense item. It’s a quarter of my turnover. That’s a quarter of turnover. I said, “But that’s not possible.” It's not that it's expensive, it's that I need it. I have to do it, and that's how it is. It's an investment, that's what I sell too, so it's not that it's expensive. But if you sell that, you have to put in place the organization that goes with it, the services that go with it. We only work with the best, that's it.
– There is also the fact that, as we also produce growth in turnover, it is our job to ensure that every month, every year, it increases. It also comes, in part, to take charge of these charges that we cause, in fact.
- Completely. That's what I tell the owners. I tell them that they compensate for the additional cost of the concierge service with the increase in turnover and the increase in profits, largely. Since I'm talking to investors, I don't explain it to them twice, actually. This is no surprise to them. On the contrary, they know well, on certain apartments, there, I thought in Corsica, we practically double the owner's initial turnover. So, that’s big revenue. Everyone is there, in fact. Even the owner, by no longer doing anything, still has a growth in his turnover, and then in fact, in the company, everyone is a little bit interested, directly or indirectly, in the results. , Also. Obviously, Élise, she is paid, there is a fixed amount, and then the percentage of turnover, so we bring in turnover, the more she is paid too. My commission, Wowloc's commission, is based on turnover, and I also redistribute part of the turnover amount to all my managers who are on site in the field. Since there is no reason why they should not also receive profit-sharing, we will say that as... a participation in the overall result of the apartment's performance. When we rent nights for 300-400 euros, there comes a time when they also have to be there. Like, that seems logical to me.
– Not everyone does it.
– Not everyone does it, it’s true, but it’s also part of the little thing. Maybe that's why it works so well, I don't know. There is a relationship of trust too. And then the money turns. It's important that the money turns over. There's no point in money being stuck in one place. I have more and more, and the objective is not to bleed everyone. The goal is for things to work, for everyone to be happy, whether it's the owners, my service providers, the people I work with, and then the people who are on the ground, too, who are doing the work. enormous, under severe time constraints. It's very difficult work. We never talk about it enough, but it’s a job that is very difficult, very demanding. Not everyone can do that, that's for sure.
– Earlier, you were talking about the owners. You tell them a little about price management and all that. Are the owners happy to know that there is someone in your team who manages prices, or is it a subject that is a little transparent for them?
– I talked about it a lot at the beginning. And now, I don't have much time to talk about it, in any case, regularly, on a fairly regular basis. Afterwards, I spoke to them all regularly on the phone. They see that things are going well, they see that we are struggling, they see the market clearly, especially with COVID. That’s how it was. It was Thursday evening, presidential announcement, it was crazy. With each announcement, we waited. We wait, and then we rectify the situation, we adapt, we adjust. They were the ones who made the rain or shine depending on the reservations. So we adapt, and then we communicate with the owners. They know that we are doing our best. They see the calendars well anyway. The calendars are full, so they can see that we're working. In January, it was in small studios in my city, we were between 85 – 95 or even 100% occupancy rate. They say to themselves: “How? But that's not possible! » Afterwards, it's a matter of price, but we have results like that in all cities. Today, there is no city where things are slow. So results like that cannot be invented. We can't have results like that because we're sipping pina coladas by the sea all day: it's not possible. But I would like to. That's the next phase: how can we get results like that, but with coconut trees? In fact, 100% automated concierge service does not exist, it is not possible. That's wind, it doesn't exist. You have to be behind it, because we're always making updates, there are things that pop up all the time. We work with humans, we do not work with machines. And the machines, the platforms, I didn't think that AIRBNB and Booking are always jumping up. That is to say, they make a change on the right, they make an update on the left. Paf! there's something in the middle. Right now, for example, they can't validate, confirm reservations. It's not validated, it's authorized.
- Oh yes !
– We can no longer, as a host. What is this madness? So we have to log in to the owner's account to validate reservations: this is not possible. A month ago, it wasn't like this. I feel like it's localized, too. It's not everywhere, so they update in one place in France, but not in other places. So you have to juggle all that. Sometimes there are updates in the States. They do it at night, but for us, it's in the middle of the day. So here, I can tell you that we laugh a little less, because when it jumps, it jumps. So here, you have to be reactive. So the owners, they know it, all that. I tell them. They see it, eh? They see it when it blows up: “What’s the problem? » It's still the thing, which did it...so we are obliged to justify ourselves. We can't find lame excuses, that's how it is. In fact, at first I was like, “That’s not possible. Yet we do everything well. » And in fact, that's how it is. I think that any system, even in a company, an industry, you have a production line: it never goes as planned. Because there is a break in production, because there is an employee who is not there, etc. There are always adjustments to be made. And in fact, I was, in my head, having a system where we will put oil in the wheels, then at one point there will be nothing more to do. Actually, no. We have to intervene each time, and then we work with high-performance tools. And I think we certainly have fewer problems than with other tools. We work with Bes24; Bes24 is still super efficient! It's one of the best Chanels in the world, so we still work with big platforms. We can't work on small platforms, because one level of integration is complicated. We can't do what we want, so there you go.
– I know you have a waiting list…
– You have a list of questions, it’s incredible!
– I was just going to tell you about my last question!
– We left, oh my!
– I know you have an incredible waiting list to benefit from your services. A waiting list until 2035, I believe, that's what you told me. More seriously, it's true that you have a waiting list. When watching this video, if someone wants to contact you to ask if you could take charge of their apartment, is it possible or not?
– What happens is that I'm actually very bad at this. In developing the business, I wanted to do everything myself. There was a point where there was a bit of a bottleneck, and we couldn't do everything. It's true that I have a fairly long waiting list and that's not good for anyone: for the owners, since they wait; for me, it's not good because we're sending an image that isn't...expectations aren't great. We are creating scarcity, when it should be created elsewhere. So it's not good. Today, I am in the process of organizing myself to also subcontract this technical part: filling of advertisements, bet24; configure everything. So I'm going to be much more effective, much more efficient. Today, these two months, we are not taking an apartment in the coming months, because it is too complicated. And then we have to do a good job, too, so there is an implementation time. We can't get an apartment like that in three days: it's not possible. You have to travel, you have to discuss: “key box, not key box”… there are a lot of questions, questions, you have to establish trust with the owners. It doesn't happen overnight, all that, so we can't be ultra-reactive at that level. I prefer linear growth, but without a hitch. Generally, when I launch a good, I don't come back to it, that is to say it works the first time. It might sound weird if you hear that, but I prefer to say it. There is a wait, I hope it will be shorter and shorter, but for now, there is a little bit of waiting. You have to be patient, and also anticipate, and do not hesitate to make contact early enough in your project to see, already, if it is feasible. I prefer to decline. I had the case where they were placed in the city center, but very central. Impossible to park. A very touristy town, but impossible to park. He wanted to rent all year round and it's complicated to bring a professional clientele here all year round with the seasonality of the apartment in terms of clientele. That is to say that we have a lot of people in the summer, and very few in the winter. So, in fact, customers, in winter, we will have to be very efficient in terms of RM. So we are going to lower prices. The professional clientele, in the very center, may not necessarily go there, because they want to park nearby. I told him: “Good, he's nice, but he needs a good decor, and I don't think he was ready to bring in a decorator. » So I didn't smell too much. I preferred to tell him that it was nothing, we weren't going to be able to work together. I was sorry, rather than taking his apartment and not being able to push it to the maximum, because the objective is still to push as much as possible. So I kind of choose the goods too, but if it doesn't match, it doesn't match. Today, breaking into a market is not easy. It really needs to be well suited to the market, too. If the property is not suitable in terms of location and decoration, we will have a really hard time breaking into the market. And if we don't succeed, the customer, the owner, is not happy. We've been rowing for several months, sending people on, and it's not going to work. So everyone will waste time, and everyone will be disappointed. So for me, now, I prefer to have the nerve to say no, and not please at first, but at least I'm frank. I feel it, we're going there and I'm investing in this apartment. If I don't feel it, I prefer to tell the owners, so they don't waste time. If in classic furnished rental for the year, he will have more results, I prefer to tell him from the start, rather than at the end of a year, that he compares the figures, and then he realizes that in fact, it was very difficult, because the property did not correspond to the local market. I prefer to be honest.
- Great. So, let's go to the Wowloc site then! Shall we do this?
- Yes !
– If we are the owner.
– That’s it, if you are an owner! Come to the Wowloc website: W – O – W – L – O – C.
– I will put the link in the comments.
- So. You will see how the site is structured, there are also quite a few developments that will happen, and then there is my telephone number. If you prefer, by email, contact me directly. You send me the link to your ads, the link to your AIRBNB ad, for example. If you do not have any advertisements, a few photos of the apartment, the geographical location, then I will tell you what I think of it in all honesty before taking the property into management. It will save you time. Usually, people always say to me: “Oh yes, I'm glad I called you, because I was going to make a big mistake. » We will get in touch and I will explain to you how we can move forward together, and then afterwards, you will have the chance to have your prices created by Élise and her team. This is one of the important things, obviously, of all the little things that must be put together to have results in seasonal rentals. The layout, the decoration, the photos, the marketing, all the marketing strategies, customer loyalty, the RM, obviously to have results and to break into the LCD today.
– Great. Listen, thank you very much, Manu, for this super interesting exchange.
- My pleasure.
– Everything you shared with us is really nuggets, so thank you. I was delighted to welcome you to the channel, and then look forward to it.
– Me too, it made me very happy, thank you very much. And anyway, things are going really well at work. We've been working together for two years. Two years? Three years?
– Two years, yes.
- So. Either way, it's a relationship of trust. Everything is a relationship of trust, so go ahead, rent in LCD, have dreams and aim high to get good results and then contact us, there is no problem, we will respond to your request.
– Nice final words. Thank you Manu.