Here is the transcript of the video:
Hello and welcome to the J'poster Complet , the channel which helps seasonal rental owners and seasonal accommodation managers to become serene and ultra-profitable . Today, I am delighted to welcome you for a new video and I am very well accompanied by Alexander , who is the founder of the Smart Conciergerie and the Smart Concept . He's going to tell us about it and I'm delighted to be able to ask him a few questions. Hello Alexander, how are you?
Hi, it's going great. Thank you for welcoming me.
Well listen, really shared pleasure, because I know that your experience is really important in the creation of concierge services, the fact of running a concierge service while being, we can see it behind you all the same, quite far from where are the goods of your concierge. So, I have several questions to ask you in relation to that, which I think will really inspire the people who are listening to us. Maybe to start, can you share your journey with us for people who don’t know you?
So, if you like, I was originally a civil servant, so I was a civil servant for 8 years. I then started investing in real estate and that's where I was able to buy several apartments or buildings to rent out. And that’s how I finally discovered the power of short-term rentals. After training myself, having implemented all the processes, well I discovered that it worked for me. And uh, I had very good results on my accommodations. That's how, little by little, I told myself that if I can do it for myself, I can also do it for others, whether my friends or even other investors. And that's when I said to myself, well, the idea of creating the concierge service came to me. So I had so many good results in my city that it was not yet a very optimized city on the short-term rental market. I had to convince my first owners to follow me. And it wasn't easy because we were in the middle of the Covid period, but I still had my results which were there, so I could prove to them that I was right and finally follow me. So after several years, they are still under contract with me. So that proves that I was right to convince them at that time. So good. And if you want, after 2 years of operation, I managed both my concierge service while having my old job. I was then able to leave my job to take care of my concierge service exclusively. My company at the moment, I work in France or abroad. Right now, I'm in Thailand, for example. And to have my teams on the ground and optimize everything digitally from here.
So, my priority, my number one, is precisely this geographical freedom and this is what currently allows me to pay for my company , manage my teams digitally or in the field from France and also save more time , more money to do it. Above all, I want, that's why, great. And why did you originally create a concierge service? Were you unhappy with what you found on the market? In fact, since I was doing it for myself, in fact, I was already a little bit my own concierge. I had already really integrated the big processes. I was even at BS24 at the time, I had put in a lot of processes to manage all the price brackets, etc. I had really done things well. I was really rigorous. I really had a process for some accommodations, but like young concierges in the end, and I said to myself but in fact I already know how to do it. So even if I didn't have all the backup and all the experience that I have today, all the processes, but I was already able to do it for my own homes. And so it was ultimately a logical continuation of what I was already doing. I immediately got really hooked on short-term rentals . I learned everything from top to bottom to truly become an expert. And precisely this concierge business is a win-win and that’s what interests me. That is to say, you cannot make money without making money for the owner. We are really linked, it is a collaboration of trust. And that's what allows me to take a percentage of turnover and put it aside. He, the owner, has peace of mind, he saves time, he gains performance.
And there you have it, which has allowed us to move forward like this for years. Really, the motto is: “give yourself the profitable freedom you deserve.” Ah, that's great. What were your mistakes, do you think? It's always quite inspiring to learn about the mistakes of others in order to prevent them. What were your startup mistakes?
Me, I was very fixated on everything that was process. So, in terms of technical errors, I didn't really make any. In any case, these were not harmful errors. But, the biggest mistake for me came when I had about 15 homes. I managed everything on my own. I was very proud to have everything automated, optimized and delegated to the field. I told myself that finally, I could manage everything on my own since I had all my processes.
Except that in fact, customers still called me, especially traveling customers. And as a result, when I was abroad or traveling, I was disturbed, whether at night because of the time difference or during time slots that did not suit me. Even though I had optimized everything in terms of reception deliveries and all those parts, I said to myself: “Normally, people aren't supposed to call me. Even a 10-year-old can understand how to access housing. It has all the information, all the characteristics.” But in the end, they called me anyway. And I said to myself: “Okay, in the end, I’m still up against the wall. Because I spend time managing everything, already by running our business, but in addition, I have to have this operational aspect.”
And I finally found myself being in a system that I didn't want, that is to say working for my company but inside it. You see, really moreover, really driving all that above. And I said to myself: “Okay, now I really have to find a solution to delegate this part. It was really the communication at the beginning, communication with travelers, which was my biggest challenge. error, in the sense that I told myself that perhaps it was too long before delegating it, you see, it was really at the end. Between managing my current job, managing on top of that, responding to travelers all the time, it was really too much. And there you have it, well, there, you no longer have a choice if you want to continue moving forward, because I saw that I was stuck, and what's more, it was really starting to, in quotes, get me drunk, tell me 'there, I'm moving forward, I'm just doing that'. I really had to find this solution of delegating this to someone. On the communication part, this is the first where I had to do it, yeah, because you were still an employee at that time, in fact, exactly, yeah. And even at work, I remember, it was funny, because even my colleagues often heard 'answer the phone'. At the beginning, I didn't talk about it too much, in the end, they knew, but they were laughing. 'Wait, that's the thing.' It's true that I also spent time on the phone, and I have to, I can't continue that, yeah. How many properties would you say we can have as an employee, moreover, when we create a concierge service? Well, it still depends on your goals afterward. Me, to tell you, we still went up... Ah, I don't know how much we went up to when we were still employees, but we went up to more than 60, when we were still... We could have already left ... when I tell you 11, it's because I subsequently recruited a colleague who is my best friend, who worked with me and who now manages the whole company as well. But at the time, there were two of us managing everything, and we rose little by little, you see, and at 60, I think we were still in our profession, but we said to ourselves very quickly afterwards, well, in fact, we have our objectives, we can, in relation to what we want to live and what we need, and in relation to our lifestyle also that we want, well, we can live from that. So, for me, concretely, I had calculated that on my own, from 25, 30 housing units, I could have left my current job as a civil servant, knowing that at the time, I wanted around €2,500 per month, you see, €2,500 net per month in your account, yeah, that's it, that's what I earned more or less at the time, I earned between 2000 and 2005 . I said to myself, if I leave it, it's obviously to earn at least the same thing, but it's mainly because there, in fact, we spent a lot less time there. In fact, now, we spent a lot less time there. And there you have it, so for me, yeah, if we are… and if we optimize well, there you go, between 20 and 30, but very quickly, for me, the part to delegate is communications.
So, can't we handle everything on our own after a while? I think we can reach a kind of burnout if we have to manage customers, prices, operations, announcements, on top of our current job. I think very few people can survive like that for very long, yeah, yeah, unless they lose their health, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you see, I think of those who have children too, because I didn't have children, it was easy, young people without children, I got involved 100%, but anyway, that's why we really have to optimize it from the start, there you go, delegating, optimizing, it's really important.
But when you say that you didn't have children, that basically means that you're telling us that you really worked like 18 hours a day and all your weekends included, or uh, you see how that has the impact, the fact that you don't have children, how does that have an impact, because often, well often, I'm told that when uh, after that it depends on how everyone manages with their children, you see, but when you have children, well often, well yes, you have a lot less time for your business, to move forward, et cetera, yeah, and uh, and I saw compared to certain people who even had their own business, which necessarily had a brake, you see, when there are children, but it's normal, it's a little part of the process, it's logical, you can't invest so much in your business when you start to create your family life, what follows.
And so there, I am... B wait, I'm still young, I don't have children, but I'm fully involved, but for all that, I didn't spend a lot of hours there either , because, well, I mean, the owner clients called me, I signed the contracts, it really happened little by little, step by step. It's really this communication part that took me time at the beginning, that I really wanted to delegate, even thinking that everything was done well, that I had never been called, well, they'll still call you. So since then, it has evolved, now there are external companies, now you can delegate communications, there is even AI, there is great software. Before, there wasn't that, so obviously I had to hire someone. But now it's a lot easier, I find, than when I started.
Ok, I understand, and delegating is also where we met, because at that time, you were looking for someone to delegate the revenue management part. And we've had the pleasure of working together for a while now, uh, how was it, yeah, a few years? What was it like before revenue management, before you worked with I'm showing full? So, well, I had already come across your video, so I was taking a little bit of advice, I was doing my own... in fact, I was doing, in quotes, my income management on my own in my sector, because I was in a sector that I still mastered very well, in the sense that I know it, it's where I was born, so I saw my reporting, my histories, I thought I was good in my sector, I Wasn't too bad. But once again, I was limited, because after a while, I developed and uh, in other cities, in other sectors, I… but now, I have to do it again, I don’t know this sector, what am I going to do? And that's where I started to say to myself, well, this is getting complicated. And above all, well, I spent time analyzing, remodifying prices, studying the market, the periods, the events, et cetera, it takes time. And in fact, by discovering your service, I don't know how it happened, but yeah, we made contact, in that, that's it, a few years ago, so, but, and in fact, I discovered that there you go, I really had experts, and I said to myself, ok, but it looks super square, that's probably what it takes, what, yeah. And what would you say that it brings you, what would you say that working together concretely brings you? Well, in fact, for me, the team, I'm speaking in general, if I display full, it's firstly, for me, a saving of time, because I really wanted to delegate this part, so tell myself , ok, I have to save time, it's more up to me to manage the prices, so that's the first thing, I really wanted to concentrate on running my business and delegate this part. But in addition to delegating this part, it's really delegating to real experts, you know. There, I didn't need to retrain anyone, you were already at much higher levels than even me, that's what I did at the time, that's what I told the team , is that even in my sector where I thought I was good, I had managed to do things much more... much more impressive. So, I said to myself, ok, and from that moment on, I said ok, but carte blanche, if they manage to do better than me in my own sector, uh, I have nothing left. to say again, what. So, saving time, also gaining yield, therefore profitability. And then, once again, there is this business aspect, operational aspect, but also the team aspect, you see. Every time, I say it, but there is really a good atmosphere, good osmosis, it's really a team of leaders, we see that everyone, whether it's the marketing team, the revenue management team, or all the other teams that help, you see, the assistants as well, we see that they are really keen to do things well, and that they are there, and that they are happy to do it, in fact.
That’s really why, for me, there’s this osmosis around complete Chffiches that I like. That's why I say, well, we continue to move forward, eh, you see, if we listen, they will be touched to hear that, yeah, all that. And how do your owners see it? So I, in fact, use that as a major argument. I am in a sector that is still very competitive, even though I have been in the sector for quite a while. On Google pages, I am number 1, for example, you see, on Google Maps, so good. But also, there is still competition. And in fact, I emphasize revenue management as number 1, that is to say that the owners ultimately hear almost the same speech from the concierge services. We can sell them some, sell them dreams, et cetera, but I really give them this aspect of revenue management, and they often don't have that. I really make them understand that with us, of course, they will gain peace of mind, but in addition, we will make more money. And I really take into account that I am sure of myself, 100%, and in fact, we prove to them in addition behind. So, we already have the histories, we have the reporting, so we can prove it to them when they ask us for estimates. We already have the audits, we already have the returns, so we already know what we are doing. And when we get together, I know very well that when we commit to it, they will see the results. And we are not here to sign a contract for the sake of signing a contract, we are starting on retention, to sign it for the longest term possible, to really seek out this long-term collaboration. So, that’s really how I bring revenue management to the table. We're really going to make the most return, even if they did it themselves, after all the commissions we're going to take, we'll still make more return than them, even though they spend a lot of time there. So, it's really a major argument, I use it a lot in my negotiations with the owners, so to speak, because really, uh, when they choose me, I know that they did the right thing. choice, you see, yeah, yeah. I'm selling something that's really, uh, behind it, I believe in it, because I myself, in addition, they know that I'm an investor, and I myself invest in management, so, uh, there you go , what proof, there you go.
Yeah, totally. Well, what's more, there are more and more owners today, we in the community are full, we have a lot of owners, and everyone watches the same content online. So, everyone also knows that revenue management is extremely important, it's not something you can do on the fly. So, yeah, I have a lot of owners who call me saying, we would like to work with a concierge who works with I'm fully booked and all that, yeah.
And for you personally, as a business leader, what has it changed, uh, what has it changed? I'm full, that's it, on my, on my life , yeah, yeah, about your life? Well, it's, it's that in fact, it's that each time, I want to be able to control my box above, I want to be the least involved in it, in fact, you see, I I want to really be able to delegate once I have people I trust, but really as I tell you, you have carte blanche, and I know that it goes well, we have our reports every week, everything, everything happens for the better, and in fact, it allows me to pursue ah my development, both personally and professionally speaking, in fact. So, for me, really, it really allows me to be... pe and then to go looking further together, and also faster, you see, yeah, it's really important for me, it allows you to keep this management position, ultimately, and not to be in all the positions within your company, that is. You remain in a management position in the company, exactly. And then, what's more, I know that at the moment, as soon as we have a question, as soon as we have a doubt, something, but with the WhatsApp group, we respond super quickly, and in fact, everything straight away, we can... because we have a lot of owner questions, obviously, they go through us, so they ask us the questions, we ask you again after what's going on, at in terms of pricing strategies, things like that, we respond to them like a shout out to Luc who gives us great reports, great IPs, and often, we give them that, and they tell us wow, ok, thank you for the response provided , it's great, he really sees that there is a professionalism behind it, and straight away, they let us go in quotes of the L, you see, ok, but they are really experts, they manage behind it, ok, we let them do it, and right away, that's what allows us to have peace of mind and save time, because an owner who calls you all the time for prices or whatever, well, that's is... you see, it's energy, it's, you see, it's stress, whereas there, well, they know that behind it, no stress, we manage everything, guys.
So there you have it, it's really important, Luci, it's the income manager of J'poster complet who works in your team and who, therefore, as soon as there is a question from the owners that you relay to her, Benah brings together the elements to allow you to provide an answer without you needing to put energy into it and reassure the owner.
And so, as apparently it wasn't enough work for you, I understood that you are also launching a training activity to allow people who want, uh, in fact to do the same thing as you, ultimately, to give them all the marbles. What made you want to start this?
Well, in fact, once again, it's a fairly logical progression for me, simply because I still achieved credibility on the concierge and subletting market, which we also do, both, sorry, we often talk about concierge services, but I also do subletting. For me, it's still complementary. And by managing more than a hundred properties and having done several private coaching sessions, having done audits, having participated in lives, so on Facebook or other groups, after having answered lots of questions, I said to myself but , ok, after a while, uh, I often saw basic questions come up, even for people who had followed training, sometimes I said to myself that's not normal. And in fact, F no, but we have to, we have to do something about that. And that's why I really created this program where we started everything from A to Z. I said to myself if I had to start again at the present time, what would make it possible for me to relaunch my business and above all make a living from it quickly, efficiently and in the long term? It's not just creating a company, a small concierge service like that, it's really looking for a valuable business that can allow you to make a living from it, to save more time, more money, to do it where we want and above all to do it in the long term, in fact.
It's really important, for me, since I launched this, I've created jobs for lots of people, whether it's digital teams, field teams, uh, we work together but it's the same, you see, well I mean it benefits quite a few people and it's really about recreating that, yeah, yeah, I understand. Afterwards, it's true that today, there are several solutions that already exist on the market for concierge training, we have several colleagues, several players who offer that. What you're offering is different, you know?
So in fact, for me, the goal is really to disrupt the market in fact. This is by offering both complete training on subletting on the one hand but also concierge service. It's really about bringing the two together because for me it's complementary. So of course, there are training courses on subletting, others on concierge services, others on competitive rental, it's about bringing everything together, saying but in fact you will see, by adding everything up, we involve all that and in fact we will seek twice as much, three times as much. So it's really about offering all that and above all also playing on credibility today with more than a hundred accommodations and around 150 out of all the accommodations which are there for only 4 months in the year, we have a great credibility and I can really share this feedback. We have processes that work, I make a living from my company, I support other people thanks to that, I have trained people, my general director at the moment who is Quentin, who is also my best friend , he was trained from scratch in fact and he manages everything. So if he also manages to make a living from this, there is a reason. So I have put so much value into this program, I have created this irresistible offer, we will say, that the people who advise and who train with me are really there to present their objectives and precisely to change their lives thanks to to that actually.
Do you recommend doing both, concierge and subletting, or even if in the training there are both, we can completely approach it by saying to ourselves, well, I will do that one of the two? Or you, in your recce, do you actually have to do both? Obviously, everyone is free to choose. In general, people say to me ah but I'm going to do concierge work first to uh generate cash, because in general, in short-term rentals, you put almost zero on the table, you don't you don't really have any investment, it's the provision of the service, you see your client, you do your service and then you receive the money, whereas in subletting, you already have to put in the contribution, obviously.
So if people already have savings or contributions to put in, I advise doing both because I show them how to do it and above all how it works. And that's what I did at the beginning too. Now, whoever wants to do only sloc or Concierge services but he is free, he has all the modules inside, uh, they are well made for that, that's what he actually wants. Yeah, for me afterwards obviously, afterwards it's funny how the students I challenge them I say ok because they gave me their objectives you see so obviously I have challenge compared to that and today well wait you can go look for more go look for the sublog you are good at what you do there go look here for the sublog in concerue also develop your sector here and so on in fact with these tips there everyone allows them to evolve and even if some at the beginning believe that they are only going to do concierge work I see that very quickly they manage to finally obtain skis and skills, there are more of them in two and immediately they also go on of subletting and that allows them to achieve the amazing yeah.
And in your opinion, what makes the difference, I imagine it's things that you also teach in your training but what makes the difference to really be successful in concierge service yeah or in besides yeah that's what I see a little in my case it's really having the right processes the right recipe and above all well marketed what is more important for the owners is that they can directly have access to the right information, in particular through a Google page the website to be able to make an appointment and a call and then to convince the owners you must have this irresistible offer the right arguments be an expert in your field answer all their questions and their maximum confidence in fact it's really that the owner at the end says to himself but in fact yes I can't I can't miss his offer in fact the person is an expert on his Dom all the processes to answer all my questions go further in I mean what would be needed for this, what would be needed more so what really allows each time to differentiate itself is what I use as I say we are in a competitive sector every time My owner calls me he really sees the expertise behind I answer all their questions I go further than that and above all he sees that behind it well we already do it in fact we have results and little by little this is what allows you to gain credibility and sign more and more contracts. In fact, I go through training. The challenge is really to achieve x 10 minimum in one year over the investment in training but because it's logical that's what I did the first year so I had a 5th qualification and and it's once again it's the same here in fact there not really, there is no miracle, all of that can be learned, it's processes to put in place, I mean it's still something where anyone can do it, you see, there's no really hyper technical things we're talking about you see there's no need to have done San to get a B to be super strong in business in law or anything it's just processes to put in place at them nest if you are rigorous and if you apply them well if you delegate you optimize and you automate but inevitably it will work in fact or especially at the moment there is so much demand because I say every time there is so much request for owner there is so much short-term rental accommodation that at the level of the offer we but we are still at the moment and this will continue for a few years I think we are well at the level of the offer you see there is not enough for the demand and especially in terms of offers as a truly professional concierge service there is no time for that if you look closely because I am recovering a lot of contracts from old concierge services which are between quotation marks from the concierge services but which we see clearly when the owners explain to me why they are changing because it is someone who has Bou sense like that who is a complete beginner who has no process and who explodes in flight or who cannot not manage in time yeah I agree with you there are still a lot of offers that cannot find the right shoe for them in the concierge section and
We still have, unfortunately, many colleagues who approach the profession not for lack of desire to do well, but for lack of commitment or perhaps for lack of knowledge or help in professionalization. They are not yet up to industry standards. So, it's good that training exists, in fact, like what you're doing here, to share the methodologies, the processes to be as professional as possible. Because, today, launching your concierge service, well, more than ever, you can't do it at short notice, like that, in the mode: "No, but it's okay, I put a ad one day on Airbnb and I made two sales.” It's not enough.
The short-term rental market is constantly evolving, and when I see where I am today compared to when I started, it no longer has anything to do with it. If we don't adapt to this, if we don't have the right method, the right processes, straight away, we can't evolve. I realize that even people who didn't know this before think it looks easy. But they don't realize the real work behind it. Sometimes they say, “I manage Airbnbs for my sister, thing, I’ll do that too, you’ll see.” But it's like everything, it can be learned. If you want to have the right processes, it's very effective.
Today, there is a lot of free content, whether on YouTube or other platforms, but after a while, if you want to save time and money, you have to search. Every time I launched something, I looked for training, a program, a seminar, a Mastermind, whatever. You have to know how to surround yourself. This is what makes the difference between a society which is going to survive and a society which is really developing, which succeeds in changing scale.
Yes, I have received initial feedback from people who followed the training with me. I am very satisfied and honored, because all the feedback I have had since the beginning has been very positive. Even when we launched publicly, students were pleasantly surprised by all the content and quality. It's very encouraging to see that what I wanted to put in, they feel it.
The Telegram group also allows you to communicate with all members. If they have questions, they ask them directly in there and we answer them. It allows everyone to exchange ideas and provide feedback. It challenges you, you know, unconsciously. Even if the person is not in your area, it puts a little positive pressure on you to say: “Wait, I have to go look for more too”. It's true that it's also inspiring to say to yourself: "Okay, if others succeed, so can I, there's no reason why I can't do it." It’s super constructive.
Too good. Well listen, it was really interesting talking about all that. Do you want the final word, I don't know, on something of your choice?
Listen, the final word is that you see, really giving the means, it was my biggest dream. Here, I'm talking to you about this, I really wanted my geographical freedom, to really be able to make a living from my activity. For me, right now, that's really what I can do. Obviously I want more, but right now I'm talking about here. We're in Thailand, we're enjoying it, the weather is nice, in France it's winter, there you go, we're taking advantage of that and we're also putting that forward, you see, in our YouTube channel, Instagram, not necessarily to get high , but rather to say, actually look at what it is possible to do, we can work remotely and have a business that we like. And there you have it, really giving the means. Me, I didn't arrive here by chance, I trained a lot too, I put thousands of euros into my training, things like that, but I know that behind it, that's it, I got my comeback on investment, I obviously worked a lot for, and it's not finished, but here it is, it's just to share that here, by having, by being well surrounded, by really having an important focus, we can really make beautiful things. I'm happy, I want more, and I think it's the same in your case, there you go, we have a solid team and it's me, I see us going much further like that. So here, we are talking about a hundred housing units, I want 300, you see, in my head, so we are going to put the processes in place, I am sure behind it, you will still be there to manage them. So, well, for me, it's a pleasure to continue like this, it will really be a pleasure to share, really a pleasure to share. I like when you say I worked a lot to get here and it's not over and I find that a good message to convey because it's true that we have too much of a tendency to say to ourselves or even when people offer training, the number online prejudice is to say, ah well there you go, it's to do nothing more et cetera, no no, not at all, offering training takes a lot of time, it we have to answer people's questions, we have to support them, and it's really not at all something where we don't do anything anymore, so I'm quite aligned with you and I think it's good to point that out and say that it's That’s the mindset of the house and it’s not something else, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, if you don't sell a dream, it's really the reality, you have to work hard to succeed. Afterwards, by having the right methods, the right teams, it does it, yeah, so well. Well, listen, thank you very much for being here for this interview.
It's a real pleasure. And then, oh no, wait, I almost forgot, how can we find you, super important, we have to tell the people who are listening to us how can they find you?
So, for the concierge part, well it’s Smart Conciergerie, quite simply. So, the site is smartconciergerie.fr. For the training part, it will be Alexander Smart Concept, so on Youtube or Instagram, and you will have direct access to everything. So, we also put our style on because we like, uh, to do something also jovial, we're not just here to talk business, it's also interesting, we share lots of content tips. And then, well, for anyone who wants to go further, obviously, can contact us directly, whether for concierge services or training, obviously.
And so, wait, a little question which is not a trick question, but if you see, you say that you share your lifestyle, you said earlier that you are young and that you want to have geographical freedom, uh , is a mother like me with two children going to find herself in your content too, you see how it goes compared to that so that we could not have, you see?
No, because in reality, we're doing something fun anyway. We are, we show a little bit of our daily life, we show what we do, we show the meetings, we show the places we are going to visit, and we also show that we are working behind in fact, you see, we It's not just there to, to show great point of view, the great things that we achieve, but no. So it's cool, it's really for, to have a different look. You want to do something different, not just professional content, sometimes that can be a little boring, ah no, we wanted to put all that forward a little bit and then, because in fact, we really share who we are behind the person to see, really those who follow us, they know who we are and then either they catch on, they don't catch on, but in general, it's cool, you see, we're in a good mood, we pass it on, we pass it all off in a jovial way, so, so, it's nice, so, yeah, it's for all types of people, all types of comps, obviously.
Okay, great. Well, listen, thank you, and then thank you for the soundtrack too, eh, because we are sure a nature and discovery CD with the sound of birds from earlier or der, it's great, it's a pleasure. Well listen, see you soon Alexander and then don't hesitate to go and find out what Alexander is doing on the different sites that he has shared with you. Thank you very much, Alexander, very much.